Interview #3: Matt Flaherty

We're already to our third interview! This week, we'll hear from Matt Flaherty, a professional runner and running coach based in Bloomington, IN. Earlier this year, Matt set a new marathon personal best of 2:21 in Boston.

I was introduced to Matt by, Fleet Feet Racing teammate, Dave Strubbe at the Daniel Burnham Open, a cross country race that my friend Lee Greenberg and I have produced since the winter of 2009. Matt won in 2012 and 2013 despite the 4000m race being quite a bit shorter than the ultramarathon events that are his focus. Matt is a smart, resourceful runner who competes well across a wide range of distances and disciplines. I've appreciated his insights on many occasions and I think you will as well.

Matt en route to his 2:21 personal best.

Photo Credit: Joshua Niforatos

What is your running background? More specifically, how did you begin running marathons? 

I've been running competitively since I was 11 years old, starting with junior high cross country.  I competed in both cross country and track through high school (Chatham, IL), and then ran Varsity XC and Track for the University of Illinois for three years.  I got into marathons almost immediately after college.

I was always better at the longer stuff, so I knew I would tackle the marathon post-collegiately.  As early as 2007 (the year I graduated), I set the Olympic Trials (OT) qualifying standard as a goal.  While I have now run faster than what the standard was at that time (2:22:00), the standard itself has been lowered to 2:18:00, and I'm still chasing it!

Can you describe your marathon progression?

My first marathon was the Missoula Marathon in 2007.  I was working at Glacier National Park that summer, eating a lot of unhealthy food and probably drinking too much beer. :)  I was a bit overweight and I didn't really train for the race, but I hopped in anyway.  It was very hot and the race was a bit of a humbling experience.  I ran a 2:52 for second place.  My first serious attempt at the distance came the following spring, where I ran a 2:26:35 for second place at the Go! St. Louis Marathon.

After St. Louis, I had a few years of bad marathons, where I was too aggressive in my racing.  Learning to really race for 26.2 miles can be difficult thing, and I had quite a few blowups/DNFs (Houston 2009, Berlin 2009, Chicago 2010, Dublin 2010).  I finally put together a solid race at the 2011 Grandma's Marathon, where I ran 2:22:53.  Even in that race, I ran a bit too aggressively for my fitness level.  However, I'd make the same choice again, as I was chasing the OT standard (then 2:19:00) and I felt I had to give myself a shot.  I went out in 1:09:15 at the half marathon point, before fading a bit over the final miles.

In the end of 2011 I began competing in ultramarathons, and then in 2012, I was injured almost the whole year.  I raced one marathon in 2013 (the Napa Valley Marathon, where I took fourth in 2:25:39), as well as three marathons this year, but I haven't trained specifically for any of them.  By that I mean I may be in good shape when I race them, but I don't do enough marathon-specific pace work in training or taper enough to really hit my peak.  Instead, I have been using marathons as logical building blocks and harder efforts for my ultra marathon training.  Despite the lack of focus, I managed to run a new PB at the Boston Marathon this year, a 2:21:20, good for 28th male and 32nd overall.  This was very encouraging for me, as I knew I wasn't training optimally for that race.  It lets me know that I have potential to go faster right now.

You've whittled down your marathon best while also competing at much longer (and much shorter distances). What role have ultramarathons played in your marathon progression?

While I don't think that all of the ultramarathons I'm racing are optimal preparation for the marathon, there has been an upside.  Ultras have taught me to grind through tough patches quite well.  I used to blow up in marathons quite often (2 DNFS and 2 blowups in my first 6 attempts), but that never really happens anymore.  I raced three marathons this year: Napa Valley (1st place, 2:26:15), Boston (28th place, 2:21:20), and Missoula (4th place, 2:27:49).  I didn't feel great at Napa or Missoula as they came early in my preparations for my spring and fall seasons respectively, but I could hang tough and race well despite feeling bad.

High fives as Matt takes the win at Napa Valley earlier this year.

Photo Credit: Beth Rosenbarger

In 2012, you experienced an injury that prevented you from running for quite awhile. Can you talk about returning to racing (marathons) after this lay off?

I had about 10 months where I couldn't train due to an Achilles injury.  While it was extremely frustrating at the time, I think I learned a few things from the experience.  One thing is that your lifetime base of fitness does not go away, even with 10 months off—the basic aerobic fitness is still there.  I realized this when I was able to run a 2:25 marathon (Napa 2013) on about three months of running with very few workouts.

How would you translate this for a less seasoned runner who may be coming off of an injury?

It’s hard to say exactly how things would translate for another runner (say, in terms of percent difference in performance), just because there are so many variables at play.  I think the lesson is really that you shouldn't rush an injury comeback or be overly concerned about losing fitness.  When I did start doing some workouts in the months following my injury, it was very strength based.  A fair amount of uphill repeats or uphill runs on a treadmill (it was winter in Chicago!), and progression runs working through a range of aerobic quality paces.

How has this experience developed your overall running and racing philosophies?

One of the lessons I learned is that some time completely off every now and then is a good thing.  Obviously my injury layoff was much longer than I needed, but I would say that taking off a 2-4 week period now and then is great.  People often ramp up their training way too quickly after a peak marathon.  At least once a year, I think we should all take a few weeks with no running at all.  You aren't going to feel great immediately when you start training again, but that's OK.  It's the nature of proper periodization.  It gives your body a chance to recover (hormonally, muscularly, mentally...) and truly absorb your last training block.  When you dive back into mileage, workouts, etc. too quickly, you're likely to stagnate a few months down the line.

You've raced abroad quite a bit this season with the next challenge being the IAU 100km World Championships on November 21st in Doha, Qatar. How are things shaping up for your Team USA debut?

It's been a long season, but I think I'm fit and fairly well prepared for the World Championships in Qatar.  I'm certainly very excited about putting on the USA singlet for the first time.  There are a lot of uncontrollable elements in this race, in particular, the weather.  The race starts after sunset (6 p.m.), but the temperature still may be as high as 80-90º Fahrenheit with 80% humidity.  It will likely be a race of attrition for this reason.  Running conservatively and managing things like nutrition and hydration will be key.  I've never raced a flat 100km on the road before, so that could bring some unexpected challenges as well.  No matter what happens, it is a unique opportunity and I'm sure I will learn a lot!

After Worlds, I'll be taking my own advice and resting for several weeks before building up for the spring/summer racing season.  My focus races will be the Boston Marathon (hoping to run the OTQ of 2:18:00) and the Comrades Marathon in South Africa.

Thanks to Matt Flaherty for taking the time to participate in this interview, and best wishes to him as he represents the USA on Friday, November 21st!

To learn more about his training, racing, and coaching, visit Matt's website! In addition to his own racing and coaching others, Matt is also producing his own content on a regular basis. Some of my favorite recent posts are his photos from his trip to Patagonia, Chile for the Patagonian International Marathon 63k and his own interview series of top trail runners titled "Quick & Dirty."

Thoughts, questions, or comments?

Thanks for reading!

Shameless plug:


Registration for the 2015 Daniel Burnham Open is open, team up with your friends to participate in Chicago's only free cross country race!

Interview #2: Meagan Nedlo

The second (of six) interviews features 2:39 marathoner, Meagan Nedlo! Meagan and I met through our work in the running industry. Since I've known her, I have always been impressed with her ability to train at a high level while traveling the country and beyond for work. I thought that her perspective would be something that us working folks could relate to and learn from!

Meagan is full of sisu.

Photo Credit: Jane Monti

What is your running background? More specifically, how did you begin running marathons? 

My path to marathoning is probably unconventional compared to most women who compete at my level. I was a completely average high school runner in rural East Texas (12:00 two-miler) and wasn't exactly having to fend off recruiting calls from college coaches. I ended up attending TCU (go Frogs!) on a full academic scholarship and didn't pay much attention to running for the next few years. I still jogged occasionally but mainly just stayed fit on a general level. However, later in college I ended up getting a part-time job at a local running store which in hindsight is probably the single seemingly inconsequential decision that led to where I am now. It resulted in me accepting a tech rep position with Mizuno right out of college, then a year later taking a similar position with Brooks. During that time I was surrounded with people who actually took running seriously and I began to become more serious about my own "training." Midway through my two-year tenure at Brooks I started dating a guy who was a great runner himself and encouraged me to pursue coaching from one of his former college teammates, Jeff Gaudette. I reached out to Jeff, whom I'd only met once, to see if he wanted to start coaching me for what I'd arbitrarily decided would be my first marathon, Marine Corps 2008. He agreed and we began a remote coaching relationship (I was living in Atlanta and he was in Charlotte at the time). What I didn't know (or didn't pay much attention to) was that he was also coaching at the Division II collegiate level, alongside Scott Simmons at Queens University of Charlotte. But throughout this training cycle he came to realize that 1) I wasn't too terrible at running; and 2) I still had collegiate eligibility. He ended up calling me out of the blue and offering me a scholarship to earn my Master's degree at Queens while running track and cross-country starting the following January. So, even though my MCM debut turned out to be underwhelming to say the least (I dropped out around mile 20 due to stomach problems), in January I found myself packing up my apartment in Atlanta and moving to the Queen City!

Without question, my time at Queens and the support from Jeff and Scott is what transformed me mentally and physically into someone who performed like a "good" runner--and someone who believed I could be better! I dropped my 5k and 10k personal bests by over two and four minutes respectively, became a 3-time individual NCAA All-American, and changed my mentality from thinking it would be super cool to one day break three hours to setting my sights at qualifying for the 2008 Olympic Marathon Trials. And that, in a nutshell, is how I came to pursue marathoning more seriously going forward.

What has your marathon progression been like?

I already mentioned it began inauspiciously with a DNF at MCM in 2008. Well, despite everything I said in my previous answer, it didn't get much better in my second attempt. I was fit and ready to target the sub-2:46 [Olympic Trials Qualifying] standard at Houston Marathon in January of 2011, but for whatever reason (likely due to muggy and windy conditions), it just wasn't my day. I was on pace through halfway but then faded badly over the next few miles and ended up dropping out at 17, defeated and embarrassed. Still, in the back of my mind I believed I was ready to capitalize on my fitness sooner than later. Coincidentally, two weeks after Houston I was scheduled to work the expo at the Mercedes Marathon in Birmingham, Alabama as part of my then-new position with footwear brand Karhu. I knew I could get an entry if I wanted to, so without telling more than a handful of people I decided to quietly enter the race and chase the standard again. On a brisk, chilly day with a rolling course, I finally executed my race strategy and crossed the line in 2:45:01, almost a minute under the qualifying time. I was going to the Olympic Trials! Since then I've run 2:41:06 (at the Trials in January 2012, good for a 49th place finish more than 100 spots ahead of my seed position) and 2:39:08 at Philadelphia in November 2012. I've struggled a bit over the past few years but am toeing the line again at Richmond on November 15th with the goal of punching my ticket to the 2016 Trials!

I have often observed Meagan race and win while traveling for work. Here she is doing a victory lap after winning the 2012 Chicago Half Marathon.

Photo Credit: Matthew Sands

You've run 2:39 and qualified for the 2012 U.S. Olympic Team Trials in the marathon, what gave you the confidence to pursue these goals?

I think a big part of what gave me this confidence was seeing the confidence that others had in me. And not just people like my parents and friends, who always tell you you're awesome at something even when you kind of suck, but people like Jeff and Scott and my boyfriend and others in the running community who actually knew their stuff. I remember when Jeff was recruiting me to run at Queens, he told me on the phone that he believed one day I would become a national champion in the 10k. I literally laughed out loud--I'd barely broken 39 minutes at the time! But less than two years later I would find myself entering the final lap of the DII national championship race fighting for the victory. I ended up third that day, behind two runners who would each at some point break the DII national record for 10k. That one moment, more than anything else, made me realize that I should never limit myself or allow myself to be held back by self-doubt. It's not always easy and the progression hasn't been picture-perfect and linear, but I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't still believe there was more and better to come.

On your blog, you've posted a lot of discrete workouts. How would you describe your overall philosophy for the marathon? How has this developed over time?

First let me say that I believe everyone is different and there's no one "right" way to approach marathon training. For me, I'm not particularly fast or innately talented. If I can break 70 seconds for 400 meters during a workout, it's a banner day. I'm never going to be doing mile repeats at 5:00 pace. And, if you look at my PRs for every distance except the marathon, they all line up as consistently mediocre with my 2:39 being a glaring outlier. So in order for me to run "fast" at the marathon, my training is fairly unglamorous: high mileage, lots of tempos, lots of doubles, just sort of grinding out the miles day by day and hoping that ultimately my strength will be my speed. I would say that philosophy has remained fairly consistent over the past few years, although one thing that's changed a bit during this specific cycle has been a conscious decision not to fixate so much on the numbers. In previous buildups I've been adamant about hitting 100 miles per week or some other arbitrary number, to the point where I would add miles to my long run or go out for a ridiculous Sunday afternoon shuffle simply for the purpose of tipping the scales from 98 to 100. Now I just trust the workouts and runs that my new coach, Terry Shea (formerly of the BAA and coach of a group of amazing women (and a few decent guys) such as previous Twin Cities champ Jeannette Faber and recent US Marathon Champ Esther Erb) gives me and let the numbers fall where they may. I've had several weeks where I've looked at my log on Sunday and realized I was going to end up at 89 or 97 or whatever and not given it a second thought. I trust his guidance and I trust that if it were imperative for me to hit that next milestone number he would let me know.

During your marathon build ups, you log quite a bit of mileage. How do you balance this with travel for work/life in general?

This can get a little tricky. I would say my average mileage during marathon training fluctuates anywhere from 80-105 mpw. I also work full time (having recently switched over from Karhu footwear to Craft apparel) as a national sales manager so I travel quite a bit across the US and Canada. Sometimes it can be challenging when I have a red-eye flight or a 12-hour day at a trade show or a sales meeting to prepare for, but along with my coach I try to be forward thinking and build in "down" weeks when travel/work is super stressful and to make sure that my big workouts fall on days that are manageable. Also, I'm fortunate to work in the running industry alongside a group of like-minded people who will often accompany me on doubles at lunch or understand if I have to "work from home" because I'm traveling for a race. That said, I try not to abuse that flexibility too often and if I have a 14-15 mile workout on a Tuesday morning I'm still going to be at work by 9am (but I can't promise my hair will be dry). For the most part, though challenging I do enjoy the travel and getting to run with cool people (like Dan!) while on the road.

You're running the Richmond Marathon on November 15th, how has your training been going and what are your goals for the race?

Training has been solid. I don't think I'm going to PR (although anything can happen on race day) but I do think I'll be able to dip under the OTQ B-standard of 2:43. For now, I'm okay with that, and if all goes to plan I would consider making an assault on the A standard of sub-2:37 in the spring. During this cycle due to various reasons I've had to do probably 85% of my workouts solo, which presents its own set of challenges, but I've been really pleased with several key sessions such as 4x5k around 6:00 pace within a 20-miler, 2 mile-1 mile-2 mile-1 mile-2 mile averaging upper 5:50s, and even as recently as this Tuesday (12 days out from Richmond), 14 miles with 12 really comfortably at 6:11. The work has been done, now it's time to rest and freshen up and put my game face on!

Thanks to Meagan Nedlo for taking the time out of her busy schedule to take part in this interview, and best wishes for her run next week in Richmond!

Editor's Update:
Meagan ran 2:40:48 in Richmond, qualifying for her second Olympic Trials!

If you'd like to learn more about Meagan's training and racing, check out her dead blog Meaga Miles. Meagan, now that I've plugged your blog will you update it? Seriously though, Meagan has a ton of historic content on her blog. You can also view her training log on Athleticore.com, if you're a member. 

Hey readers, do you have questions or comments? Ideas for questions for future interviews?

Leave a comment below!

Thanks for reading!

Shameless plug:

Registration for the 2015 Daniel Burnham Open just went live yesterday! Team up with your friends to participate in Chicago's only free cross country race!

Two-morrow! Interview #2!

Interview two of six comes out tomorrow! We'll hear from Meagan Nedlo, an Olympic Trials Qualifier in the marathon!

Photo Credit: Michael Sands

If you missed it, here's last week's interview of Mark Scheitler!

See you tomorrow!